Full interview of the EU Ambassador to Albania, Silvio Gonzato on Top Channel with Grida Duma

Journalist: I am in an interview that I have been anticipating for quite some time with the Ambassador of the European Union in Tirana, who represents a political figure with four decades of experience in diplomacy and politics. We are about to begin an interview that has both a current relevance and an analytical context, concerning the stage in which Albania finds itself, the spirit of Albanian society today, and the way in which the international community—whom we now await with great interest to hear their views on our overall socio-political situation—perceives it. It is the right moment to conduct one of the interviews of such importance and weight. Dear Ambassador, I am really happy that we could succeed to have this interview with you. It is really a good momentum to have your insights as for the political analysis, as for the, let's say, mindset of the Albanian society as a whole, toward a path in the European integration and which we are so much eager to see with realistic eyes. Thank you for your time and thank you for everything that we realized this interview in a very concrete and actual moment. 

Ambassador: I'm the one that thanks you actually, for hosting me in your show, because as you say, this is quite an important moment in the history of Albania's path towards the European Union. So I'm pleased that we can have this conversation today.

Journalist: Is it correct if I say that you have been four decades in this profession, diplomacy and politics? 

Ambassador: You're revealing my age, yes, almost. 

Journalist: Let's amaze the people that you have four decades in politics and diplomacy. 

Ambassador: Next year in August I will retire, so this is my last posting and that will be 38 years of career in the European Union. 

Journalist: 38 years.

Ambassador: Yes, I don't quite make the 40, but it's been an extremely interesting and fascinating career, I have to say, and I'm still passionate about my work.

Journalist: You are not a typical diplomatic and political personality. When I read your exact years in the Enlargement Department in Brussels, I had to hold my breath because I don't have that great vibe to work in the corridors of Brussels offices because of the huge procedures, bureaucracy. But you have started in Brussels, from Brussels to New York, and I'm giving only milestones, to Tirana. What is this small Albania giving you in the last years of your four decades in diplomacy? 

Ambassador: It gives me enormous satisfaction. Diplomacy sometimes is a lot about words, is a lot about negotiations, and you don't really see the concrete outcome of this. The beauty of working here in Tirana is that we have the accession negotiations, which are extremely important. They are a transformative process that will bring Albania into the European Union. But I also love the fact that we have very concrete projects, we help vulnerable people, we help build infrastructure that is so much needed here, we try to foster an education that helps young people to find jobs, you know, to realize their dreams, we help entrepreneurs realize their dreams. So, that gives you a sense of agency that I didn't have so much in the past. I had it in other places, but in New York, what was fascinating was the fact that you are confronted with so many viewpoints. You have diplomats from all over the world. And it really burst my little Brussels bubble. I had been living in Brussels for so many years. Brussels, of course, is a complex machinery. There are so many interests at stake, 27 Member States, et cetera. But New York is the world. And it really makes you a bit more humble, to understand other people's viewpoints. 

Journalist: Do I have to take it seriously that you are going to retire? 

Ambassador: Yes, yes. In August I will retire. 

Journalist: And where would you choose to leave? 

Ambassador: Well, I'm from Verona, which is, I don't know if you know it, it's a beautiful town. 

Journalist: Who from Albanian citizens does not know Verona? 

Ambassador: Yeah, one of the beauties of this job is that I have a direct flight to Verona from Tirana, so it allows me to go back often. And I will go back there because when you come to a certain stage in your life, roots become important again. And all my family is there. We are five children, you know, I have two brothers and two sisters and they have children and the children have children. So it's a huge family, typical Italian family. So I'm actually looking for a house now, a house which is big enough to host all my family, have dinners together, spend time together, but I know already that I'm not going to spend all my time in Verona. I've become a citizen of the world. 

Journalist: You have, you have. It's due to your profession and your mission. How many children do you have? 

Ambassador: I have two. 

Journalist: Two? 

Ambassador: I have two, yes. One is going to be 32 this year and the other one is 29. And they're very different from each other. 

Journalist: Do they come in Albania? 

Ambassador: They do, they do. Actually, one comes more often than the other, and I'll tell you why because it's a bit of a story. So Giacomo is an airline pilot. So he jumps on a plane, he comes along and he loves it here. Giacomo has an Italian name and he's very Italian. He's outgoing, loves to chat with people, loves good food. Sebastian, both sons are Anglo-Italian, is a climate activist, so he decided that he is no longer taking any planes, unless there is really an emergency. So when I was here, he said, “I'd like to come and see you.” And he said, “Can I take a train?” And I said, “No, from Brussels you can't take a train. It's complicated.” He said, “Okay, maybe I'll cycle.” And I said, “I don't think cycling is a good idea.” And so what he did in the end was to take a train down to Bari and take the boat across. So it takes a little bit longer for him to come, but he promised he's coming again this summer. 

Journalist: It's a very fascinating way of seeing a family with such great diversity in tasties and everything else. 

Ambassador: Absolutely.

Journalist: Is Tirana a Western capital city for you? 

Ambassador: Absolutely. People, when they come here, they don't really know what to expect. I had a few friends from New York coming, but also friends from Brussels, friends from Italy, that hadn't been to Albania. And they were fascinated by the fact that they felt completely at ease and at home. For me, Tirana is an Adriatic city. I feel that Tirana is different from the other capitals of the region. You can really feel the Adriatic, you know, the sea, the mentality, the vibe. It's a city facing the Mediterranean, although, you know, you have to go to Durrës for the sea, but you know what I mean. That's the feeling. 

Journalist: I know that certainly the most citizens of Durrës have come in Tirana. I am a living testimonial. We always wanted to be in Tirana and bring our sea vibes. That's only a joke to go to a further serious matter, which is our standards, not our vibes, our standards. And coming here, 7:30, I was re-listening to your conference for the media as for the progress report that was delivered these days. You were emphasizing some key terms that one emphasized coming from positive to the constructive and critics. This is the way that a great diplomat and politician of international space speaks. So you are emphasizing there that, okay, Albania has done this and that and that in moderate progress or good progress, these are the terms used. Let's stop or let's start from the justice reform. It is the most important, as we see it as media, power now that can establish somehow a balance of powers. You have been very vocal and very straightforward as for the efficiency of the justice system. You have said if people do not feel it, you are not in the right standard there. This cannot only be in the paper. The prolonged processes in the past are still there and the political lobbying in appointments of certain councillors or certain magistrates and so on is still there. Now we have nearby, in days, the elections in the most important SPAK structure. Do you really think that politics has hands-off in that structure now? Is the most important, let's say, perception of the people that only SPAK can stop corruption. It's a perception, but let's see. 

Ambassador: Thank you for starting with this question, because I think that the justice reform, as you said, is really key to Albania's progress towards becoming a member of the European Union. We have emphasized it over and over again. And if you look at the progress report, you will see that when we deal with fight against corruption and fight against organized crime, the achievements of SPAK are highlighted. But we ask for more. You see in the report that we asked to intensify financial investigations, to increase the seizing of assets and properties belonging to criminals, to intensify cooperation with Member States’ law enforcement agencies. So we want more, but we appreciate what has been done so far. But you will see also that the report emphasizes, and this is something that I am really very attached to, it emphasizes the need for better and more efficient ordinary justice. Because I do feel and care about the fact that ordinary citizens don't really see the advantages, the benefits of the reform. Actually, they probably have seen a little bit of deterioration in standards because of vacancies, because there was also a reform of the whole court structure, etc. Transitions are always difficult. Transitions always come at a cost and that's why you need to have a medium to long term perspective and think “okay, now it's not so good but I know that I will get to a stage where things will be better”. But that's also why I've been engaging a lot with independent justice institutions, because as I always say, independence goes with accountability and efficiency. And of course there will be political pressures, you know, this will continue, but these institutions are much more resilient, they can resist. I'm convinced of that. And you see in the way in which they take decisions, etc. 

But they also have to take responsibility. They are the institutions that have to manage the whole judiciary, the whole judicial system. And that's why, again, in the progress report, you will see that we insist a lot on the fact that they have to put in place transparent rules for the recruitment of magistrates, for the assessment of magistrates, because you can assess the integrity of a judge or a prosecutor once, but if you don't continue to do that, you can still have cases of corruption within the judiciary. So you need a continuous assessment of the integrity of magistrates. And these are things that they need to do. They need to appoint the presidents of courts that still haven't been appointed. So there are a lot of decisions that they need to take. The ball is on their side.

EU Delegation to Albania

Journalist: There is a certain movement in Parliament to create a commission to supervise some, let's say, structures of justice. And to me, I have really carefully followed your press conferences with other political factors and both sides. You have said don't touch the constitutional structure that is now, which means that you have seen any threat by the parliament to interfere politically in controlling some of the structures of justice? 

Ambassador: No, not really, but I felt the need to clarify certain things because people say, “Yeah, but there are certain aspects of the judiciary that don't work that well.” And of course, you did a huge reform in 2016. We are now in 2025. It's time perhaps to look at the way in which certain aspects of the reform are working. But what I say is that the fundamentals, the architecture, the governance structure cannot be touched because the independence of the judiciary from the executive and from the legislative has to be respected. Otherwise, we lose the most important achievement that Albania has made. 

Journalist: So if politics wants to remove one of the structures, GJKKO for example, can it be possible from the parliament? 

Ambassador: Well, I mean, the parliament is the expression of the people of Albania. So, you know, they can legislate, they can change the constitution. But clearly the message coming from Brussels is that if you do that, then you do compromise your chances to join the European Union, because that as we said over and over again, the justice reform, with the architecture it has put in place, is an absolute requirement. 

Journalist: The other point was a very polarized political situation in Albania. And I am only emphasizing three pillars from your press conference, not to go all through the progress report. Polarized political ambient and atmosphere. We are so much used in the past that international ambassadors of really important countries and status quo like EU and USA ambassadors will interfere and balance a little bit the political forces and realize some mechanisms that Socialist Party and Democratic Party could not do it by themselves. Because of certain non-grata issues with the head of the Democratic Party, Sali Berisha, from there now we have a complete reduction of international interference or smoothness of the situation. Do you see it a one-side thing? Do you see it a weakness of the role of the ambassadors? Or do you see that Albanian can do whatever they want, they can do their mess as they want, and we are not interfering anymore?

Ambassador: So already the concept of interfering is one that I don't like. I see myself as somebody who is here to accompany, to facilitate, to help, to support, not to interfere. This is not the European Union way of doing things. It might be the way of other people, but not ours. You probably, if you followed me, and I think you have, judging from what you say, you probably remember that right from the very start, when I arrived in November 2023, I tried to bring the opposition back into the parliament because I kept emphasizing that when you do important reforms, like the ones we need to carry out to make Albania accession-ready, you need to have a public debate on these reforms. Because it's true that the standards are most of the time quite clear. These are the standards that you have to reach and you have to apply in Albania. But the way in which you do it is also very important. You have to take into account the Albanian context. I'll give you a example. There might be phytosanitary standards that Albania needs to adopt. And actually this is an area where a lot needs to be done. But if you just adopt the law and say these are the standards and you don't put in place measures to help farmers, to create the structures that can check these standards, you're going to do it only on paper. You're not going to do it for real. So these debates are extremely important because parliamentary debates involving also civil society, involving business, are extremely important because they ensure that the reforms do have an impact, are sustainable, that they will actually improve the situation, they will not just be pieces of paper. And so for me it's extremely important to ensure that all political forces play their role and the place where they can play their role institutionally, because I deal with institutions, is the parliament. And you will see in the progress report that there is a whole paragraph that says very, very clearly that accession is a whole of society process. It's not something done by technocrats here and technocrats in Brussels. It's something that has to involve all sectors of society. That's why I keep on talking about allowing the opposition to play its role (but the opposition has to be willing to play its role), but also allowing civil society to play its role and allowing business to play its role and informing people. This is my constant request to the government: you have to inform more. People have to understand what accession is about. 

Journalist: And is the opposition willing to do its mission? Because I am very, very careful in hearing the terms. You emphasize the “willing” only in the opposition.

Ambassador: I always say, - you probably have seen statements that we made - we say that the opposition should be able and willing to play its role. I focus on ensuring that they are able. So I'm focusing on talking also to the majority and say, you should allow this space. And I don't see this happening at the moment, you know, neither the willingness nor the ability, but I will continue to work in that direction because for me it's very important and it's part of my mandate, so to speak. Brussels is very, very attached to the idea that everybody should play their role. 

Journalist: And playing roles means that another pillar that you have emphasized is that the controlling and monitoring from Parliament to executive is limited, which means that the majority is having more space that is not limited by control, which means that in the time being we have an investigation and something going on from SPAK to the number two of the government. How do you see this atmosphere? How do you see that the Prime Minister is saying justice has its own mission, we are continuing our, let's say, governing. What will be a European standard in this perspective? Or they are free to continue with this, let's say, standings toward the Albanian people?

EU Delegation to Albania

Ambassador: I see what you mean. We do have a policy of not commenting ongoing cases because one of the principles that governs the judiciary is the presumption of innocence. So you can't start condemning people before the investigations and the court proceedings have taken place. But in general, I think it's clear that, as the report puts it, the Parliament does not exercise sufficient, let's say, scrutiny of the action of the executive. And to go back to what you were saying about the scrutiny also of the judiciary, I wouldn't call it scrutiny because the judiciary, as I said, is independent, but the judicial authorities, SPAK, the High Prosecutorial Council, the Judicial Council, they report. They report regularly to the Parliament. And I think it's important that these debates take place, that members of Parliament can ask those institutions, are you doing enough for the citizens? But that the Parliament also listens to their asks, because these institutions sometimes ask for more means, they ask for more structures, for certain particular adjustments of the laws governing their functioning, et cetera. So it's a dialogue that needs to take place, and it's very important that it takes place. So I don't like the term monitoring because I don't think the Parliament should monitor independent institutions, but there has to be a dialogue between the two. 

Journalist: Accountability. 

Ambassador: Yes, exactly. 

Journalist: And going on with accountability, there are the IPARD funds. That is a huge discussion. We know that agriculture is one of the three sectors that Albania can develop in a certain dimension to be, let's say, with a comparative advantage in the European market. IPARD is one of the most important tests and illustrations to go forward with European standards in the agriculture sector. What is going on with IPARD funds? Why this investigation of what has been done previously from government to the funds and distribution of them has taken so long and has made, let's say, a stop to this or this is not correct or only a perception and we do not know many. 

Ambassador: As you say, payments have been suspended since the start of the OLAF investigation. OLAF is an independent office. It comes in when there is suspicion of fraud. They do their independent investigations, they have their own findings. It's all confidential. And then when they do ascertain that there has been fraud, this starts a process that involves, of course, the Commission services in Brussels and the beneficiary country. The proceedings are quite tough because when we talk about European taxpayers' money, the European Commission takes this very, very seriously. It takes it seriously when it's a candidate country and it takes it very seriously when it's also a Member State. And the Commission is still waiting to have sufficient assurances that mechanisms have been put in place to avoid occurrences of this kind in the future. 

Journalist: In the future. So... 

Ambassador: I mean, fraud can happen, but you have to have the systemic checks that give us sufficient assurance that the situation has changed.

Journalist: Is there any truth in the fact that some companies have backed paid some money and turned back some money from the previous IPARD funds because of being afraid of the investigation going further and further? 

Ambassador: I'm not aware of this, but I wouldn't even comment it. 

Journalist: I see. Okay. Let's go further with the optimistic agenda of being a European member. You have stated and emphasized that 2027 can be a date that we can close the negotiations. Five or four of the clusters are closed, are opened and still going on? 

Ambassador: So five have been opened and the sixth one, which is the last, which is cluster number five, that's the confusing thing, the sixth one is going to be open probably next week. This is what I hear now in the corridors. So that's a positive achievement. It really is. We opened all the chapters in a relatively short period of time, a bit more than a year. So that's positive, it also shows the Member States in Brussels want to be open to Albania's ambition to join the European Union. But as I said at the press conference and as I keep on saying now, now is when we test Albania's ability and willingness to carry out the reforms. Because to close chapters you really have to not just adopt the pieces of paper I was talking about, but also implement them. And that's why I will keep talking about implementation, implementation, implementation. 

Journalist: Will this be a reality? Because there are two momentums. Just to explain for the great audience that we have. I'm not being modest. Ambassador, you have emphasized two points. You have started your press conference with, and I'm always, let's say, stating that, with the optimistic opening of five from six cluster, and you have closed it with, be careful, quantity is not quality. Be careful of using this crucial moment and doing things in a real way, implementing. Crucial is somehow not let's say an Albanian willingness or an Albanian volunteer or an Albanian able or let's say capacity. Crucial moment means also a crucial moment as geopolitics which means Europe is doing the last enlargement because Europe needs it, not because Western Balkans are ready for it or are, let's say, tested, checked positively. Which means that is there a real possibility, as my critic eye is seeing it, that the government is entering in the electoral campaign saying that we are putting Albania in the EU because the EU needs us now, not because we are able to do it now. Is there a possibility that we are entering the EU because the EU is in this crucial moment that we have to, let's say, profit from it, but we are entering not in good condition to be in standard with European market, to be in standard with European social and human rights, to be in standard with everything and we can then have a push or we can have then have a clash with everything and not be in our promised land but in a very chaotic place with our standards, values and competition. 

Ambassador: I can tell you've been a politician because you know how to interpret words in your own way. Because when I said crucial, for me crucial meant that this is the time where you really have to do things for real and these have to have impact. Because clearly we are in a particular geopolitical context where Member States realized that it's important to have stability in our neighborhood, they also remembered suddenly that this region is in the middle of the European Union, because you are in the middle, and that it was also in our interest to ensure that you're part of this beautiful project. I followed the debate in the Committee on Foreign Affairs when Commissioner Kos presented the progress report, and, as you know members of Parliament represent also the people of Europe. Merit-based, merit-based, merit-based was repeated a lot. So the two go together, you know, it's not just geopolitical, it's not just merit-based. It's the two that go together. It's a good alignment of the stars. But that doesn't mean that Albania can get in without having done its work. 

Journalist: What is the red line that cannot… What is the limit of it? Where is the point that we can have regress and be afraid of? 

Ambassador: The months to come will be really a process in which a number of laws need to be passed. So the rhythm is going to be intense and that's why I put a lot of emphasis also on the quality of the process because we will need to ensure that whilst we keep this pace, this momentum, that we bring along everybody, that people understand what's going on, because they all have to contribute to implementing these reforms. They all have to own these reforms. The progress report says very clearly that everybody has to own this process. It's not just something that comes from the top and is imposed on the Albanian people. So we need to achieve this balance between speed but also quality. As for the red line - you know, the process is very structured. There are standards that you need to achieve in order to close a chapter. And if you don't achieve those standards, you're not going to close the chapter. That's as simple as that. 

Journalist: The collaboration of the opposition?

Ambassador: The collaboration of the opposition is going to be important to have this societal debate. And that's why it's for me important to keep channels of communication with them. 

Journalist: So you have channels of communication with them? Do you consider this an official and formal relation with the opposition or this is, let's say…

Ambassador: I have channels of communications with everybody, some of them are chairs of very important committees. For example, the Committee on Media and Human Rights is a very, very important committee because the whole media reform is one of the tenets, is the very heart of the fundamentals cluster. So unless you improve the media environment in Albania, you're not going to make real progress forward because the fundamentals are the last cluster to be closed. 

Journalist: Do they, these committees, do they have the right saying after Sali Berisha said something in front of the parliament building as addressing to you in not appropriate manner? Did the committee that you have official, let's say, collaboration and so on, reacted as they should or…?

Ambassador: I know that there's been a lot of talk about this and I think it's time to turn the page, to be honest. But let me just say one thing. On a personal basis, the remarks that have been made on that occasion, but also on other occasions, about my private life, well, I would define them just purely as bad taste, to be honest, They don't really affect me that much. I'm an adult, as you said, or an old man. I know my choices, I made them and I stand by them. I don't have to justify anything. What concerned me on that occasion was the implication that because of these personal choices, that these personal choices were clouding my judgement and that I was doing things as ambassador of the EU because of my personal story. That is something that I could not accept because I believe I'm doing my job in a professional way, with integrity, and so I was really happy that my boss, Commissioner Kos, stepped in and she said that she has full trust in me. That's all I need. I don't need anything else. I don't need any committee to say that this was right or wrong. What I needed is this. 

Journalist: And I was not asking about your needs, because who you are and how you have built your career has been certified by entities that are certifying Albania. So this is not a question of your need. And being a person that is so, let's say, in the light of the world, could be insane to even consider that you need anything on your confirmation of the values. I am asking about the standards that they have or not. If they have this standard, and if they have some, let's say, even formally, some standards, I think that that commission or somebody else in that position should have reacted because there is a great mindset here, Ambassador. In my own experience, I know very well how much it takes to be very careful and conscientious if a matter or an issue or everything that in my own perception is black or white or grey or green is this, but what it is for the other shoes, I have to use my conscience on that. And this is everyday life in communication, public communication, as I'm doing now, you are doing in politics and diplomacy all your life. And it takes a huge commitment to differentiate your tastes, your ways, your growth, your way of being who we are from others and to be in their shoes. And this is the most important maturity of a person. You said you are old. I can say you are mature, but old, I don't see it. You have 20 years being the same in your photos. But what about the standards of human rights in Albania? Because this law of equalness of the genders has raised a lot of our discussions. Why is this law having so much discussion? Because it's propaganda? Because other political issues are not discussed and two parties are doing some playing over an issue that is not an issue, but they are hiding other things? How do you see this perspective of the gender equality law that has, let's say, raised so much voices and so much debate?

Ambassador: Going back to the initial part of your question, I would like to depersonalize the whole thing because I'm not a political figure. I'm an ambassador. I represent the European Union. I represent the views and the values of the European Union. So indeed, I think that it's important if in the months and years to come, people appreciate the need also to respect private life, and not make judgments of this kind. But pushing that apart, I'm glad you mentioned the gender law because I think we should approach the whole thing with humility. And this is what I also told the government. It really exemplifies the need to have societal discussions even before you put a law on the table, even before you start discussing this law in the parliament. You have to explain what you are doing and why. This law, I don't know if you read it, but this law does not introduce new rights. It does not introduce a third gender. It does not introduce the concept of non-binary, etc. It simply tries to ensure that a principle that is already in Albanian legislation, equality between men and women - and I don't think anybody can say, oh, this is not good. I think equality between men and women is fundamental – the law simply tries to operationalize it. So to make sure that not just in the public sphere but also in the private sphere….like for example, you're a journalist. It makes sure that you, as a journalist in Top Channel, are going to be paid exactly the same amount if you were a man. And I think that's absolutely necessary. And it's one of the fundamental principles, as Commissioner Kos said in her tweet, is one of the fundamental principles of the European Union: equality. Then it also has another component, which is about non-discrimination. In Albania you already have a law on non-discrimination which says that you cannot be discriminated because of your gender, because of your race, because of your religious belief, etc. And also talks about sexual orientation. I did not invent it. It's already in Albanian law. But we're talking something different here. We're simply saying that okay, if I am competing for a post, and I'm gay, and you're heterosexual, the selection should be just based on our merits, the way in which we are selected, that my sexual orientation should not be used as a way of saying, no, no, no, we're not having this person rather than that person. It's as simple as that. It's not introducing new rights. 

Journalist: How can we ensure that they are not discriminated? Because this is a mindset thing. He or she can say that I'm not discriminating. 

Ambassador: But that's why I'm emphasizing the need to have discussions. In May last year, when people say when I did my coming out, - I mean, it's a bit ridiculous because I was already out, obviously - but when during a television program, basically, I was talking about myself, I simply did it because I would like to de-dramatize the whole thing, you know? Just simply say we're not a threat, that the fact that there are gay people, and there are people, I don't think anybody can deny that – that to love persons of the same sex is not a threat to the traditional family. So the law is a step, but it will take a lot of societal discussion to ensure that we look at things rationally, because I agree with you, there's been so much disinformation about this. And my appeal is also to you journalists to try and bring this back to normality, which doesn't mean promoting homosexuality, doesn't mean, you know, doing anything of this kind, but allowing everybody to have a place in society. Why shouldn't we? 

Journalist: Which has been historically there. 

Ambassador: Yes. 

Journalist: I mean, allow me to make a short introduction just for my standpoint. When we speak about natural rights and the conservators say that natural life is only heterosexuality, we have to go and research history and to see that the human life has been very diverse in the, let's say, orientation of this private and intimate choices, which has been always there. The people have loved from the same gender or men and women, has been there. So even this is a natural life, natural right. But when we go further and state in the law multiple gender affiliation, what does it mean?

Ambassador: I know that that caused a lot of discussion 

Journalist: This is the issue. 72 genders, 74 genders. What does it mean, multiple gender affiliated? This has been the turning point where even my colleagues would have put points of suspicion. 

Ambassador: And that's what confirms the need to explain, right? Because that's what should have been done. The reading of that particular phrase is like this... it's like the stereotypes which are attached to you and to your role and which are typical of the gender with which we were born. Let me try to simplify. I always try to simplify. 

Journalist: I would love that. 

Ambassador: You're a woman and I will say you can't really be a pilot because pilot is a thing for men. Or you can't be an engineer because your brain is really not made for scientific stuff. You should do languages, literature, because that's what, you know, it's... 

Journalist: Typical of your traditional stereotypes. 

Ambassador: Yes, these stereotypes that are… these affiliations, the fact that they associate your gender with certain perceptions, you know, and that's what should not apply, should not influence the choices that you should have in society. 

Journalist: True. That means that, okay, this is in the law, and the law, does it make sure that when it comes to discrimination pretended by one or another person they can go to the court and the court is ready to to judge this kind of standpoints and mindsets. So are we sure that the chain is ready to implement this mindset? 

Ambassador: Duma, you touched a very core question. The law is the starting point, in fact. Because then you have to ensure that people understand the law, those who have to implement the law have the skills and knowledge to implement it, that they have the means to implement it. So, as you say, it's a process. It will take time. And it's also in the EU, you know? It's not that because we have laws you necessarily have these rights enforced systematically, et cetera. So it's a process, but I think it will make our societies better. 

Journalist: In 2027 we can close the clusters. What is the nearest day to be a European member country? 

Ambassador: So the process is that once you close all the chapters you start negotiating the accession treaty. At the moment, the European Union is organized in such a way that we have our current Member States, they have a certain number of seats in the European Parliament, they have a commissioner, this and that. So all that needs to be changed because there are new Member States joining. This accession treaty is something that needs to be negotiated between the European Union and the candidate countries, in this case Albania, and then it needs to be ratified by all the parliaments of the 27 Member States. That's why the horizon is 2030, because if you finish the negotiations, then it takes some time to do all this and then allow Albania to join. But as we said at the beginning, Albania can close the negotiations in 2027, but we'll see. We need to do the reforms, we need to implement these reforms, we need to ensure that these standards are applied.

Journalist: Okay, I'm not asking about 2029, in which we must be very careful if the European Union can come up with statements that will be misinterpreted to, let's say, support this government and then support it, support Edi Rama to win elections again. Because European agenda is not a question of one prime minister only, of course. But at that time, I think that if I have the possibility and the contact, I will have a text message with you in Verona and probably I will ask you what is foreseen that European Union will do when the European integration would be related with the successor of Edi Rama? 

Ambassador: You will have noticed that I always talk about supporting Albania, you know, and we will support any government that has a European Union integration goal. And I'm sincere when I say that. Obviously I'm here, I represent the European Union, I interact with the institutions of Albania, and at the moment the government is led by Edi Rama and it's a socialist government, but the outcome of elections frankly does not concern us. All that concerns us is to ensure that whatever government comes out of the elections is a pro-European government. That's what we wish for. Of course this is a choice of the Albanian people. There's nothing we can do about that.

Journalist: Dear Ambassador, thank you very much for being in Tirana, for being with us, for being with me in Top Story and Top Channel. And I am really proud to have realized a non-diplomatic interview with one of the most distinguished European ambassadors in this country. 

Ambassador: Thank you very much.